Manitoba chief justice optimistic about court's path to reconciliation, but admits system is 'flawed'

Manitoba Court of King's Bench Chief Justice Glenn Joyal describes the province's justice system as "forward-looking."

"We want to be in a predisposition to preserve but a capacity to change, and I think the justice system and all actors in it are kind of reflecting on that proposition and trying to grapple with it," he told host Marcy Markusa in an interview with CBC Manitoba's Information Radio.

Joyal, appointed to his current role in 2011, presided over one of the country's highest profile cases this summer, convicting Winnipeg serial killer Jeremy Skibicki in the deaths of four Indigenous women.

In a case that symbolized "the horrors" of missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls in Canada, Joyal says the court needed to strike a balance to provide a fair trial to Skibicki that was also trauma-informed and respectful to the families of the victims.

"We, for example, allowed in the courtroom the buffalo [headdress]and other symbols that were obviously very meaningful to members of the Indigenous community," he said.

Those efforts were made to show the public, including the Indigenous community, that "perhaps, for the first time in a long time, that we were trying to integrate, absorb some of the Indigenous legal practices, traditions and symbols that had meaning for them," he said.

"So what was going through my mind [in Skibicki's sentencing] wasn't simply the act of imposing what I had to do as the sentence, which was largely pre-determined by law, but it was also to legitimate a process for the broader public that needs to trust our system."

He wants that to be the new normal, and Joyal saysit's one pillar of the work being done by a court committee introduced in 2017that aims to educate and act on the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's 94 calls to action and gain trust with Indigenous communities.

"We're not there to kind of pontificate about how good we are, how magical our system is. We're there to listen to Indigenous Manitobans and hear what they have to say about the justice system," he said.

WATCH |Rare sit-down interview with Manitoba chief justice:

Manitoba's top judge on improving trust with Indigenous communities

24 days ago

Duration 7:30

Chief Justice Glenn Joyal of the Manitoba Court of King's Bench sits down with Information Radio host Marcy Markusa to talk about the justice system in the province. In this excerpt, Joyal is asked about reconciliation and building trust with Indigenous peoples.

However, because of its responsibility to provide a fair trial, Joyal says a "push-pull" relationship will always exist between the court and Indigenous leaders.

Shortly before she died on Sept. 6, Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs Grand Chief Cathy Merrick, 63, was speaking to reporters outside of Winnipeg's law courts about the acquittal of a corrections officer charged in the 2021 death of inmate William Ahmo an Anishinaabe man from Sagkeeng First Nation in southeastern Manitoba.

Merrick said she was disappointed by Manitoba provincial court Judge Tony Cellitti'sdecision, which she called "a gross miscarriage of justice" that perpetuates systematic racism.

"I'm not suggesting Grand Chief Merrick was anything but careful, because she's a passionate and deeply engaged woman, but we have to be careful about not simply taking a verdict that we're not happy with and dissecting it as necessarily a miscarriage of justice," Joyal said.

He doesn't want to see the court's level of trust with any community depend on the results of a particular case, saying that would mean "we're effectively no better and no worse in what we're doing to obtain, or not obtain, the approval of a given community."

But the court does needto ensure that its processes are "credible" and that the public, including Indigenous communities, can approve of them, he said.

"The system itself is flawed, and we're going to make mistakes. Such cases exist, such cases will continue to exist, hopefully minimally."

'Human imperfection'

Joyal says any institution will contain "human imperfection," but adds that it can lead to tragedy when systemic discrimination is involved.

Earlier this month, Joyal acquitted Clarence Woodhouse, now 72, who was given a life sentence 50 years ago for the 1973 murder of Ting Fong Chan, a 40-year-old chef and father of two.

Clarence spent 12 years in prison before he was granted parole. His original conviction was overturned and a new trial was ordered earlier this year.

Joyal apologized to Clarence, saying systemic racism against the First Nations man "infected" the investigation, prosecution and adjudication of hiscase and led to the "miscarriage of justice."

Last year, two of his co-accused, Allan Woodhouse and Brian Anderson, were also acquitted in connection with Chan's murder following cases that court heard were also heavily influenced by systemic racism against the First Nations men.

"The problem is, and this is what was so disturbing about the Woodhouse cases, is that in each case there was a layer of systemic discrimination," Joyal told Markusa.

He says vigilance is critical to prevent more wrongful convictions, and that there needs to be more accessible ways for prisoners and their families to bring suspected wrongful convictions to light.

"I do, again, want to seem forward-thinking, and I'm optimistic about things, but I can't guarantee that those mistakes won't occur again."