'I'm telling the truth': Flemming doubles down on Gauvin's departure

Health Minister Ted Flemming is defending his decision to reveal private conversations with former colleague Robert Gauvin, even while refusing to say whether a key decision by the Vitalit health board should be made public.

Flemming said Monday he stands by his version of the story of Gauvin's resignation from the Progressive Conservative cabinet and caucus over health reform a version Gauvin himself has now denied.

The health minister said Gauvin promised to support the controversial health reforms announced Feb. 11 only if the government agreed to several spending projects in his riding.

"I'm only telling you that I'm telling the truth," Flemming said in an interview.

"My purpose was not to pick a fight with him. He was long gone. He had picked his pew and was sitting in it. I was simply taking people through the circumstances in which we find ourselves, and I stand by what I say."

Flemming told a Brunswick News editorial board last week that at a PC cabinet meeting, Gauvin initially supported the plans, which included the nighttime closure of six small-hospital emergency departments. The closures would include the hospital in Caraquet, used by many residents of Gauvin's riding.

Flemming repeated Monday that Gauvin backed the reforms at first, then called him and demanded the spending commitments in his riding.

Gauvin offers different account

Gauvin said in a statement Sunday that he hadn't used the riding projects as "bargaining chips" and withdrew his support for the reforms only when he realized there was a lack of clear answers about their impact in the affected communities.

"I discovered,amongst other things, that many health care professionals were not consulted," he said in a statement, listing potential effects on Ambulance New Brunswick and larger emergency departments already overflowing with patients.

"I realized then that this reform could not proceed as such and made it known," Gauvin said.

But Flemming said Gauvin was well aware the province was talking to health service providers such as Ambulance New Brunswick about how to handle the impact.

He said Gauvin's ultimatum was merely the latest in a series he issued since the PC government took power in November 2018.

"Mr. Gauvin has been on the edge of quitting for a long time. There was always an issue. There was always a line in the sand and so really it's kind of routine."

Gauvin publicly threatened to resign once before, when the Higgs government briefly planned to water down bilingualism requirements for ambulance paramedics in December 2018.

Board bickering

Despite his willingness to reveal internal discussions among PC government officials, Flemming wouldn't say whether a key record from the Vitalit health authority should also become public.

Three members of the Vitalit health board have now publicly contradicted claims by the network's board chair and CEO that the board supported the reforms announced Feb. 11.

The three members say there was no mention of emergency departments closing at night in the resolution they approved at a meeting last December.

Vitalit CEO Gilles Lanteigne described the resolution to MLAs at a meeting of the legislature's Public Accounts Committee Feb. 19, but he says it was voted on during an in camera meeting and can't be released publicly.

Last Friday Premier Blaine Higgs called it "concerning" that the resolution may not have been specific. "My understanding was that both boards, both CEOs, were on the same page," he said. "I guess it would be nice to get this resolved."

Flemming said Monday he hasn't looked at the resolution and doesn't know how specific it was about the reforms. "I wasn't present at their board meeting and I haven't seen the minutes."

He also wouldn't say if it should be released publicly to resolve the war of words. "I'd have to look into that," he said. "It's their board."

Vitalit's board chair Michelyne Paulin has called a special meeting of the board for March 13 to update members, "given the media attention of the last few days," spokesperson Thomas Lizotte said.

Calls to remove Flemming

Flemming also tried to reassure three Sussex-area mayors, who have called for him to be fired, that upcoming consultations will take place in good faith.

"That's their prerogative," he said. "There is no reason for them to think the plan is going ahead. We've stopped it. We are going to have a summit. We're going to consult with people. We're going to consult with experts."

The three mayors, Mark Thorne of Sussex, Steven Stackhouse of Sussex Corner and Juliana Booth of Norton, wrote to Higgs last week asking him to replace Flemming and the two health authority CEOs.

They said public comments by Flemming and the two CEOs suggested they would not consider any alternatives for health reform "beyond what has already been done."

"Many citizens, many New Brunswickers, will have a hard time putting any credibility to the tour if all the suggestions are going to land back on the laps of those who said they don't want to listen," Thorne said in an interview.

"There's no trust because the minister has been very definite in his words. He has said they've done enough and the reaction by the public is the result of an emotional reaction and an entrenched mindset."

But Flemming said the consultations, which are to culminate in a provincial health summit in June, are intended to hear local concerns and address them.

Premier Blaine Higgs said Friday he had no intention "of ramming something down someone's throat. I think the point is for us to put all of the information out there for people to see, and then we come up with a decision together."

Gauvin's alleged demands

Flemming also acknowledged Monday he made two mistakes in describing Gauvin's supposed demands.

He told Brunswick News that Gauvin wanted "a bridge to Miscou," and a commitment to keep two courthouses open in his riding.

But there are no courthouses in Gauvin's riding, and the existing Miscou bridge is only 23 years old and doesn't need to be replaced.

The PC government allocated $1 million in last December's capital budget to start design work on replacing a 60-year-old bridge between Shippagan and Lamque by 2025.

Flemming acknowledged those mistakes and said he was referring to the older bridge, and that Gauvin wanted the work to move faster.