Pension trustee denies being Ferguson's source

A former Saint John pension board member denies under oath that he was John Fergusons source about alleged illegal disability awards.

David Gould was testifying Thursdayin the defamation lawsuit against Ferguson, a former Saint John city councillor.

The pension board is suing Ferguson for allegedly defamatory comments he made in 2005 about the board's handling of the pension fund, which had a $47-million deficit at the time and has since ballooned to about $193 million.

Gould, who is also a retired city worker and former union local president, is considered a critical witness for both sides of the case.

Ferguson alleged during a July 2006 council meeting that disability pensions were costing the city an "extra" $5.9 million a year and that he had raised the matter with a "very senior person who sits on the pension board.

"I have his name, rank and serial number."

'They are not my words. They are not my words whatsoever.' David Gould, former pension trustee

Ferguson said he had questioned his unnamed source about whether the situation was illegal and that the person replied:

"Yes it is, but so is drinking and driving and people do that every day."

"That person is laughing at council and laughing at Saint John taxpayers," Ferguson had said.

Although Ferguson refused for years to name his source, he was eventually compelled to by a court order and he named Gould.

But Gould flatly denied the allegation Thursday in court.

"They are not my words. They are not my words whatsoever," he told the Court of Queens Bench.

Gould said he was at the council meeting when Ferguson made the statements and wondered who on the pension board would have said such a thing.

Gould also disputed Ferguson's claim that the reason some employees were granted disability pensions was because they couldn't get along with their supervisor. "If that was true I would have gotten one long ago," he said.

Gould told the court he recalled having a short conversation with Ferguson following the CBC Christmas show at the City Market in 2005, where Ferguson alleges the comments were made, but his account differs significantly from Fergusons.

In addition, Ferguson had expressed disgust during council about the pension board member who had admitted to illegal disability awards. So the boards lawyer suggested one would expect them to have a frosty relationship after such a shocking admission of wrongdoing.

But Gould testified that his subsequent dealings with Ferguson were always civil, leaving the jury to question whether Ferguson had fabricated the conversation.

The trial, now into its fourth week, is scheduled to last six weeks.

But Justice William Grant expressed concern that thetrial is shaping up to take longer"and by a wide margin."