Canada's elections watchdog struggles to investigate foreign interference allegations, inquiry hears

Canada Elections, the watchdog that enforces Canada's federal election laws, is hampered in its abilityto investigate complaints related to foreign interference in elections, an inquiry heard Thursday afternoon in Ottawa.

Commissioner of Canada ElectionsCaroline Simard and Mylene Gigou, the director of investigations in Simard's office, laid out a laundry list of issues during their appearance before the inquiry investigating allegations of foreign election meddling.

Documents tabled with the inquiry Thursday show Simard's office is "engaged in an ongoing review of an electoral contest in the Greater Vancouver Area." Little other information was provided.

The inquiry heard how the commissioner's office faces gaps in both resourcesand knowledge.

Both Simard and Gigou spoke to commission lawyers earlier this month. A summary of their testimony was tabled Thursday.

According to that summary, investigating foreign interference "exerts enormous pressure" on her office's resources.

The office also has limited internal knowledge about the file, inquiry staff heard.

"The OCCE faces a steep learning curve with each new country that engages in foreign interference. Building and maintaining internal expertise on all potential hostile foreign actors is not feasible, given the size of the OCCE and its current employee complement," says the summary document.

Proving foreign interference is hard, the inquiry heard, as it requiresa high evidentiary threshold for prosecution.

"I think our investigators can be caught in a loop of needing evidence to get evidence," Gigou told the inquiry, which metnot far from Parliament Hill on Thursday.

"Essentially we do get complaints, we do receive allegations, but we need something concrete or tangible or a lead to be able to pursue our work."

Gigou said her team has a limited ability to trace funds.The inquiry heard that the office is not a designated recipient of information from FINTRAC, the national financial intelligence agency.

Simardalso pointed out that her office haslimited ability to offer witnesses confidentiality.

"I would expect that these are not just challenges unique to our office, but likely for most law enforcement agencies as well," Gigou said.

Chief elections officer says he was warned

Earlier in the day, the inquiry heard from chief electoral officer Stephane Perrault,whotold the foreign interference inquiry he has confidence in the integrity of the last two general elections as far ashis mandate is concerned.

But questions aboutparty nomination contests for candidatesdominated the morning session.

Perrault testified that he waswarned by theCanadian Security Intelligence Service(CSIS) in 2019 of possible foreign interference in aDon Valley North nomination contest but said he doesn't have the power to intervene at that level.

Media reports have alleged that China interfered with the nomination of Han Dong as the Liberal candidate in Don Valley North in 2019.

A Global News story, citing anonymous sources, alleged Dong was supported by Beijing in the 2019 Liberal nomination race and was "a witting affiliate" in China's election interference networks. Dong,who now sits as an Independent after leaving the Liberal caucus last year,denies those allegations.

The story cited sources who claim Beijing transportedinternational students with fake addresses to the nomination meeting to vote for a specific candidate.

Questioned by commission lawyer Daniel Sheppard, Perrault said CSIS toldhim in 2019 about possible foreign interference related to a nomination period.

WATCH |Elections Canada chief says he has 'no authority' to intervene if voters are bused in for nominations

Elections Canada chief says he has 'no authority' to intervene if voters are bused in for nomination races

4 months ago

Duration 0:52

Before the public inquiry into foreign interference, Lawyer Gib van Ert asks Stphane Perrault of Elections Canada about its authority to intervene when voters are bused into another riding to fraudulently cast ballots in a party's nomination contest.

"I understand that at the point in time when you received that information you concluded that no action could be taken then, in part because participation in a nomination contest is not regulated in the same way as anelection," saidSheppard.

"That is correct," said Perrault.

Asked Thursday whether the matter raised by CSIS involved the Liberal Party nomination contest, Perrault saidhe was not authorized to elaborate in a public setting.

Elections Canada's role in nominations limited:Perrault

Over more than two hours oftestimony before the foreign interference inquiry, PerraultsaidElections Canada's mandate is to administer general elections and its role in nomination contests is limited to overseeing candidate registration and financing.

Perrault saidanomination contest auditwas conductedafter the Don Valley Northnomination periodand that information was referred to the Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections, which enforces the Canada Elections Act.

Perrault said that referral did not involve allegations of foreign interference.

Documents tabled at the inquiry confirmthe Office of the Commissioner of Canada Electionsis reviewing allegations related to the 2019 Liberal Party nomination contest in the Don Valley North riding. The office said itsmandatein a nomination contest is limited to compliance with and enforcement of the Canada Evidence Act's political financing regime.

"The review is ongoingand the information that can be publicly disclosed by the OCCE is therefore limited," says the document.

While cross-examiningPerrault,Gib Van Ert, lawyer for Conservative MP Michael Chong, raised what he called "an example which may or may not prove to be hypothetical."

"If voters were bused in from outside a riding into another riding to vote in some federal party'snomination contest, contrary to the rules of that party'snomination proceedings, that would not be a matter for Elections Canada?" he asked.

Perrault said he would haveno authority to intervene in such a scenario.

"Are you aware of any other institution besides the party itself that would have any role in that?" asked Van Ert.

"In terms of the contest itself and deciding the validity of that contest, no,"Perrault replied.

He also said he has raised the issue of further regulating nomination periods with political parties.

"Generally speaking, no appetite to ... further regulate the nomination process," he said, when asked to characterizethose conversations.

Few countries regulate party nominations, Perrault said.

He said addingthe nomination process to Election Canada's responsibilities would "fundamentally alter" how it operates.

"I have not drawn my own conclusions in that regard," he said Thursday.

He said he may make recommendations based on the inquiry's conclusions.

The inquiry, led by Quebec Judge Marie-Jose Hogue, expects to hear evidence from more than 40 people, including Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, members of his cabinet and party representatives.

An initial reportfrom the commission is due May 3.

The inquiry will then shift to broader policy issues and examine the ability of the government to detect, deter and counter foreign interference. A final report is expected by the end of the year.