CSIS chief defends his spies' work after PM casts doubt on reliability of agency's reports

The head of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service appeared before the foreign interference inquiry Fridayto defend his agency's work, afterPrime Minister Justin Trudeau suggestedhe sometimes doubts the reliability of CSIS reports.

'"There's been a lot of comments made about the intelligence in the media and in commission," CSIS Director David Vigneaulttold the inquiry Friday morning.

"Intelligence is a little like a puzzle. Sometimes we have a very clear picture of the puzzle. Sometimes, through the use of raw intelligence and assessed intelligence, we are building that picture, but what is important to remember is that this is done by professional, trained intelligence analysts and professionals that are bringing this together."

His comments could be interpreted as a response to Trudeau's high-profile testimony before the inquiry earlier this week.The prime minister said Wednesday he hasn't always trusted the intelligence CSIS shares with himincluding a report suggesting China may have interfered in a Liberal nomination contest.

"I didn't feel there was sufficient or sufficiently credible information that would justify this very significant step as to remove a candidate," Trudeau said earlier this week.

The fact-finding stage of theinquiry was supposed to wrap up on Wednesday, but Vigneault was recalled aftermultiple witnesses suggested they were not briefed by CSISon specifics regarding intelligence it gathered on Chinese election interference.

As his hour in the hot seat came to an end, Vigneault who acknowledges he's not always comfortable speaking publiclyasked Commissioner Marie-Jose Hoguefor permission to speak.

"I would like to leave you, Madame Commissioner and Canadians, with the message that intelligence is a very sophisticated approach. We are a learning organization and we're all trying to get better," he said.

"But I'd also like to say I am extremely proud of the work that intelligence professionals at CSIS do every day, in Canada and around the world, to protect Canadians."

WATCH |CSIS boss defends agency after PM questions reliability of intelligence

CSIS boss defends agency after PM questions reliability of intelligence

4 months ago

Duration 1:40

David Vigneault, the head of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, appeared before the foreign interference inquiry Friday to defend his agency's work after Prime Minister Justin Trudeau suggested he sometimes doubts the reliability of CSIS reports.

The inquiry has been examiningwarnings issued by CSIS in briefing notes that key witnesses say they never received. Questions aboutwho knew what regarding foreign election interferenceare at the heart of the inquiry's mandate, which was triggered by claims that Trudeau's government was aware of foreign meddling but chose not to act.

Friday's short hearing looked at three CSIS documents, two from October of 2022 and one fromFebruary 2023.They were not available to the inquiry when Vigneault testifiedlast week.

The 2023 document shows that CSISbelieved the Chinese government "clandestinely and deceptively" interfered in both the 2019 and 2021 federal elections.That briefing notesays China's interference was "pragmatic in nature and focused primarily in supporting those viewed to be either 'pro PRC' or 'neutral' on issues of interest to the PRC government."

AnotherCSIS memo from 2022 concludes that until Canada views foreign interference as an "existential threat" to Canadian democracy and responds forcefully, "these threats will persist."

"Ultimately, state actors are able to conduct FI [foreign interference] successfully in Canada because there are no consequences, either legal or political. FI is therefore a low-risk and high-reward endeavour," it says.

Another heavily-redacted 2022 documentmentionsdisinformation campaigns against then-Conservative Leader Erin O'Toole and MP Kenny Chiu during the 2021 election campaign.

Vigneault says PM aware of CSIS'sviews

During his testimony before the inquiry Wednesday, Trudeau said he never saw some of the briefing notes echoing a claim made byhis deputy chief of staff Brian Clowearlier in theweek.

"Most of the information in that document was not relayed to us in that meeting," saidClowon Tuesday, referring tothe 2023 document.

Vigneault acknowledgedthat information included in briefingnotes for specific meetings isn't alwaysrelayed in face-to-face meetings with government officials

"I joke with staff that Ibring my briefing material and I bring my hockey skates because you have to be very agile dealing with any issues," he said.

But Vigneault also said he briefed Trudeau and others in his government about theservice's overall findings on Chinese election interference before the written briefing notes were issued.

"It is indeed something that's been communicated," he testified, adding he also issued public warnings.

"We saw foreign interference during those elections and that interference was indeed clandestine and deceptive. And at the same time, that interference didn't amount to having an impact on the integrity of the election."

During cross-examination, Vigneaultwas asked whether a specific passage in a briefing noteabout the Five Eyes was raised with Trudeau and his office. The Five Eyes is an intelligence-sharing alliance made up of the U.S., the U.K., Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

That briefing note says "Canada has been slower than our Five Eyes allies to respond to the [foreign interference] threat with legislative and other initiatives, such as proactively publicizing successful disruption of [foreign interference] activities as a means of deterring future efforts."

"I can say with confidence this is something that has been conveyed to the government, to the ministers, the prime minister, using these words and other types of words," Vigneault replied.

Vigneault said Friday he stands by the documents' observations. He also said he agrees with a government panel's conclusion that while foreign interference was observed during the past two general elections, it did not threaten the integrity of the overall election or the results in individual ridings.

Trudeau challenged CSIS intelligence, inquiry heard

The inquiry has seen intelligence summaries suggesting CSIS warned that international students werebused in to take part in a nomination vote in the riding of Don Valley North, were given fake documents to allow themto vote for Han Dong who went on to win the Liberal nomination and were toldby Chinese officials that if they didn't participate,their student visas would be in jeopardy andthere could be consequences for their families back in China.

During his testimony Wednesday, Trudeau said hehe pushed back on those claims.

"My concern was more that perhaps that the service didn't understand as deeply as political actors do the prevalence of busing of different community groups in nomination campaigns," he testified.

Trudeau and other ministers also said they didn't feel CSIS's intelligence was substantiated by evidence.

WATCH |Trudeau is asked about his level of confidence in CSIS intelligence

Trudeau is asked about his level of confidence in CSIS intelligence

4 months ago

Duration 1:40

Responding to a question stemming from the inquiry on foreign election interference in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said that while he has 'tremendous confidence' in the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, he feels it's important to question sources at times.

On Friday, Trudeau was asked again whether he trusts the intelligence provided by Vigneaultand his agency.

"I have tremendous trust in our intelligence agencies," he said.

"No government has taken foreign interference as seriously as we have."

In a statement issued Friday,the Chinese Embassy in Canada repeated its claimthat it does not interfere in Canadian affairs. A spokesperson went on to say the inquiry has not presentedsubstantial evidence to back up claims it interfered in the past two general elections.

"China strongly urges Canada to respect the facts, abandon ideological biases, stop hyping up the lies of 'Chinese interference'and stop poisoning the atmosphere of China-Canada relations," said the embassy statement.

"Otherwise, it will suffer the consequences of its actions."

Watchdogs' findings coming

The end of Vigneault's testimony officially wraps this stage of the public inquiry. Over the last 10 days, the commission has heard from politicians, bureaucrats and representatives of several intelligence and security agencies.

Hogue and her team will start work on theirinterim report, which is due May 3.

This fall, the commission is expected to hold another round of hearings focused on Canada's capacity to detect and deter foreign interference, with a final report due by year's end.

Hogue's report will not be the only take on the credibility of media leaks about foreign election interference and the government's response to those reports.

Canada's two national security watchdog bodies the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians (NSICOP) and the National Security and Intelligence Review Agency (NSIRA) have finished their investigations into the same issues and have handed in their reports to Trudeau.

Redacted versions of their findings eventually will be made public.