Macs seem to be great with graphic work, Microsoft is great at security flaws, PClinuxOS just works.

"Macs are glorified Fisher-Price activity centres for adults;"

Yeah. Systems built on Unix are "glorified Fisher-Price".

Macs successfully do the thing that MicroSoft has mostly failed to do, although they have tried very hard: Make a very user-friendly GUI.

Macs do something very well that Microsoft runs away from: Power users are not forced to use an inefficient GUI. In Mac OS X you can open up a terminal window and you have all the concomitant power unknown in a MicroSoft environment.

Apple Inc focuses on a number of specific market segments; they have superior offerings in the areas in which they effectively compete.
This column mentions the home/consumer space, a highly competitive area. Apple's strengths in this market stem in at least in part from thier unmatched integration of innovative products and services that real people actually use.
Knowing computers is like being able to read - people feel insecure and don't want to thnk they need the knowledge, but many just never seem to learn. I was lucky; I took a class on the internet when I was 18 and I just grew a brain after that. So long as there are stupid people there will be stupid software - mostly from Microsoft.

Call a Mac what you will. The simple truth is... my life is too complicated without the hassle of trying to get my PC to stop crashing and freezing every time I use it (not to mention the constant viruses, treat of viruses, worry about viruses).

The best thing I did was to simplify chaotic my life a little with a really easy to use and good looking computer. Wasn't that the point of computers originally anyway? To make life easier. Who really wants something that causes you more stress? An added bonus is when you start using the Mac OS platform you are able to spend more time learning the programs that are relevant to your vocation and/or lifestyle instead fighting with your Microsoft OS or committing the time needed for open sorce systems like Linux.

PC vs. Mac? It's like comparing driving a Kia to a Ferrari. They both get you places but which one would you rather take?

I have used both Mac's and PC's extensively over the last few years within numerous contexts. I have no loyalty to either company. I am not a computer geek, just an intelligent, forthright person who values time. Without a doubt, Macintosh computers have, over the last 7 or 8 years proved to me over and over that they are more reliable, more versatile and easier to engage. I work regularly with around twenty others, all of whom own laptops varying in age, manufacturer and OS. They all say the same thing: Macs have less problems and are easier to use. Moreover, the majority of PC users in this group only have them because they are being supplied by their companies/parents. Many of these people have Macs at home. That said, I hope that this latest PC OS incarnation is better than mac by a country mile; I really do! If it is, I will switch right now, but, as it sits, PC's are simply outclassed.

While overall, Macs are good systems, they don't match up to a properly taken-care of PC. You can't go in and modify a Mac very easily... since I know how to take care of my PC, I can use it much more efficiently than any Mac

By the way, I read often that people have to reformat thier PC's monthly or so to keep them running well... I have owned my computer for about a year now, and I haven't reformatted it yet. It works just as well as it did when I first removed it from its packaging. All people need to do is learn to stop using P2P and Torrent applications, and get a half-decent antivirus program (and then use it) and they will see that a PC works just fine, and switching to a Mac is completely unnecessary.

"It has to be more than marketing at work, otherwise Pepsi pushers would be spamming Coca-Cola message boards and editorialists in Canada would be weighing in on the Mr. Submarine versus Subway battle."

I compare it more to car brand loyalty. Pepsi and Coke are just drinks, dollars apeice. You don't use them in everyday life (certainly not as much as your computer and car). You're investing much more in a computer. For starters, there's hundreds of dollars in initial purchase price. Then there's the cost of upgrades, software, games, periferals, tech support, etc. If you don't like the taste of your Coke, you spend a dollar the next day and buy a Pepsi, you can't do the same with a computer or car. (Unless you have a Mac, and then you just fire up BootCamp and run Windows ... but that's another story)

I work with Linux and UNIX, OpenVMS and Windows. I have plenty of experience with MAC OS as well.

I have to wonder if some of the posters here have lost their minds. My personal experience is that it's the MACs that crash all the time. They hang when you least expect it. They have to have their drives wiped and the OS reinstalled every other month. MAC software, what little there is of it, tends to be flakey - especially the high-end audio and visual applications! Linux hasn't any software or drivers to speak of, so don't bother. And when was the last time anyone actually managed to crash XP? You'd have to be really creative to find software that will do that. The reason for the crashes is that poorly written 3rd party code replaces key Windows files with their own! Microsoft is moving away from allowing vendors to do that.

I personally don't care what the OS is. Microsoft Windows is currently the most versatile of all operating systems and the most stable (other than OpenVMS - even LINUX crashes more than Windows) so I use it a lot, but I'd switch at the drop of a hat if there was actually anything better out there. Facts over fiction and reality over OS religion, please!

Let me start by pointing out that I have owned a 20" iMac Intel Core 2 Duo (no customization) since late August of last year. So that gives me almost 5 months of experience, and I can tell you honestly that I have had very few disappointments. Prior to this, I was using a PC- a 2001 model, with an 800 mHz processor. Switching to the Mac was a wonderful experience. Not to say that it wasn't without its problems. But it certainly has not had any of the problems that Dave (at 12:31 today) seems to have found. Perhaps he is a service and repair technician and sees the worst of the worst. The only time I've had to reinstall the system was when I tried fooling around with the partitions to install XP. So, that was my own fault. And I've only had to reboot because of a lock-up once. In five months! Tell me how many times you've had to restart your PC in that time (excluding software installations and system updates).

Which brings me to this conclusion: Mac OS X is far more secure, stable, and especially easy to use than XP, or even Vista! The only two apparent disappointments are the cost and the lack of software, but those can be disputed.
Here are some other good links:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/tech/moving-mac.html
http://www.apple.com/getamac/
Regards,
Jeremy

These "my brand is better than your brand" debates remind me of elementary school. Life is bleak when there are only two choice of everything: Coke or Pepsi, Ford or GM, Conservative or Liberal... A civilised society should offer a variety of choices to suit different needs, none better overall! It's too bad we let Bill Gates buy up all the competition. Fortunately, Linux will soon be easy enough to use for anyone who values a third option. It even comes in different flavours!

Macs are without question the leader in innovative design in asthetics, but there are reasons that Macs are still vastly in the minority. Still the biggest reason Macs aren't dominating the market is the price tag associated with owning & maintaining them. Some will argue that it doesn't crash & they are generally correct, but those same people ignore the fact that apple represents such a small section of the computer market & uses such a simplistic operating system that not self respecting hacker would waste their time trying to bring down. As for other areas Macs operating system consistently fails to make itself useful to the majority of the public due to its layout & complexity & thus, Apple has now sold out to Intel & bought its chips to allow it to run microsoft products. Even when running these products Apple is a poor 3rd or 4th choice computer because it was never really designed to run Microsoft software.

To those of you still owning a Mac I appologize but the only thing Apple is good for is as a music & video storage device & thanks but I already own a DVD & CD & MP3 player.

Can someone honestly tell me when was the last time that a random person could buy a Mac and change hardware to more powerful hardware? (i.e. video cards for my fellow gamers and video editors). With PC's it's just as easy as changing socks as long as you know what you're doing. From a gamer point of view it's all about modifying the looks and hardware to get the most out of your system, which you obviously can't do with Macs, although I don't know anyone who would even want to thanks to Mac's lack of a gaming library...

Among the reasons I don't use a Mac: it's too expensive compared with a PC with similar features, and upgrading hardware is nearly impossible and always a nightmare. The software selection is scant and, when available at all, more expensive than the same titles for PC; and the differences graphics-wise are not all that significant for the vast majority of users.

I have to use both MACs and PCs at work. As I'm used to a PC, things as easy as copying and pasting on a MAC (with a one button mouse) are not easy.

MAC users will provide you with a list of keyboard shortcuts which is great. But trying to get a bunch of junior high students to learn and remember them isn't easy.

Don Moore - Plug in any Windows-compliant USB mouse, and OSX will recognize it as a two button mouse, giving you the power of a right-click context menu.

I don't understand the Mac haters. While the original macs (the Macs-In-A-Box) kept you trapped in the little window, unable to do anything really cool, the new Macs, with OSX, are light-years ahead of anything else on the market. First, the Mac architecture is fantastic. Second, Mac OSX is Linux and old Mac OS rolled into one. It allows you to stay within the the icons and windows, but also lets you take direct control of the machine with the Terminal (that accepts Linux commands, being BSD and all). You can make your Mac even more Linux-y by running X11 on it (allowing you to run Gimp, for example). Finally, you can install Linux on your Mac, if you wish, so you can take full advantage of its excellent architecture.

I have over 20 years extensive experience with both PCs and Macs so unlike some previous posters I feel somewhat qualified on the subject. Too may erroneous statements have been made here so I offer some corrections.

To the poster who said Macs crash all the time, get real! That may have been true in the 90s but Windows was just as bad. Windows 2000 and XP are indeed very stable, but Mac OS X, which is built on UNIX, is rock-solid.

Mac OS X has always supported two-button mice. Until recently Apple only shipped a one-button mouse with their machines but you could always add a multi-button mouse.

Consumer Macs are more closed than most PCs, but the more common upgrades, memory and hard drives, are easy. And the majority of PC users never upgrade their PCs anyway, they just buy newer and better. Most people are not geeky and don't want to deal with upgrades. They just want to plug and play, which is where the Mac really shines.

Apple switched to Intel because Intel was in a better position to provide a variety of faster, more efficient processors in the future.

There is more software for Windows than Mac, but there is still lots of good Mac software. You'll find it mostly online. The average user can do everything they need on a Mac. For the odd time they can't, they can run Windows software if they have an Intel Mac. Bonus.

As far as price goes, go to the Dell website and build a comparably equipped system to an iMac. Youre in for a surprise. Of course you can build a homemade PC cheaper but this is not what the average consumer does.

So people, please do your homework and get your facts straight before making comments in public. Both Windows and Macs have their pros and cons. It helps when readers get facts, not hearsay and innuendo.

Those that claim extensive knowledge about computers, and use the term "MAC" instead of "Mac" when referring to Macintosh immediately have zero credibility, in my opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_address

"MAC software, what little there is of it, tends to be flakey - especially the high-end audio and visual applications!"

working in Film and Television I can attest to the fact that the entire post production world is using either Final Cut Pro or Avid, all running on Macs. Flaky is hardly a term I would use for High-end industry standards. I'm curious to find out Dave's credentials for making such a blatently incorrect assertion.

I though I was the only one who came up with the "Fisher Price" moniker for Macs.. Face it, if not for VLC, macs couldnt play %80 of web content until STEVE & CO figured out how to turn it into a locked down profit center. Hows your ipod battery dude? Back in dinosaur ages, Apple got SO traumatised by Toronto's AppleII cloning shops (A Canadian first!) that it decided to make the MAC a closed system.. Lots of flash, lotsa advertising, lots of "brand" hiding shoddy bullshit under the hood an crappy warrantees.. Mac Plus's burnt their video boards like russian televisions, Half the EMAC owners have had leaky motherboards shut down 3/4 of their video: Apple wont acknowledge the problem. No second mouse button. No progtram choice.. harder to get "unofficial" software. the old OS8&9 op system felt like WIN3.1 once you got used to it. A real PAIN in the &^%&^%$ to repair. OSX: no good disk repair utilities.. reformat, just like the old days.. Even Linux/BSD can't save them.
Publishing& Multimedia? I was cutting VCD's on a lashed together PC 4 years before Apple gifted its sheep with a turnkey brainless system to do it.. costs only $2,000 OOOOOOOHHH must buy it.. Books? Go back 15 years: Publish a book with VENTURA on a PC or with (Gaaak) Pagemaker on a Mac.. No contest!
Home studio? What changed music? Sound forge or pro tools (or garage hahaha band), c'mon Ross rifle vs Kalishnikov.
Macs suck, they will suck forever until OS10.5 is released for clone intel machines and gets some USER as opposed to SHEEP market forces on it.. Intel Users Unite!
Our opponents will be swept away, to drown in a sea of their own confusion. We shall prevail!

Personally I am a PC lover. Although the first computer I used was an Apple IIe, I migrated to the PC and stuck there.

Rather than knocking the Mac, I will say up front that I believe each platform has a unique user base. Those who like to tinker usually choose the PC and those who just want it to work choose the Mac.

People tend to argue PC vs Mac saying Mac always works and Microsoft Windows crashes. Well you are not comparing apples to apples (no pun intended). A PC running Unix will be just as stable as a Mac running Unix.

The reason Macs are not as prone to crashes and viruses is because they are more locked down and only have 10% of the market. If you are a virus writer, who are you going to target for greatest impact. And that is fine if you just want something that works and you have limited software requirements.

The PC on the other hand has 90% of the market. As such they have a far greated variety of software, freeware, etc. This is important to me. Yes because of the virus target caused by a 90% market share, we OC owners need to be more aware of antivirus and spyware removal, but that is a trade off I am willing to take to have such a wide variety of software available. Yes, you need to be a little more technical to use a PC, and that is fine by me, cause I am and I enjoy that. As far as PCs crashing more than Macs, once again you will hear about 90% more PC crashing than Macs cause they have 90% of the market share.

With that said I will agree that although it is getting slightly better, Microsoft Windows does suck, but as an office worker, that is the defacto standard and as such I must stick with it for the exposure/experience.

Can't we all just say that yes Mac and PC are very different and each have their own pros and cons. More importantly that these pros and cons determine what demographic they appeal to for better or worse and leave it at that.

Mac OSX is a fine system, built on a BSD UNIX variant. I have no problem with it as a system. I don't care to pay the prices they charge. I use cheep generic machines and run Ubuntu Linux... it is fabulous, I use the Beryl 3-D desktop, which is miles ahead of new vista. I never get viruses, worms, etc... and I have over 18000 applications to choose from.

It would be nice to see fair and balanced reporting coming from CBC without so much Vista free advertising going on. They release a new product, why not report on a comparison between it and Mac and Linux... You certainly would not only report on Ford's new models and ignore Toyota, GM and Chrysler when they do the same, but somehow with software that happens.

I would like to see a fair reporting on Mac OSX, Windows and Linux. (the new version of Ubuntu is coming out soon and it is spectacular... I wonder if CBC will miss that one too...)

It seems many of the responders here are confusing the hardware platforms with the OSs.
The original Apple computer platforms, up through the first few generations of Macs, were kluged, sometimes massively, both hardware and OS, while pushing the envelope of Motorola CPU capabilities. This led to most of their frequent crashing and otherwise launching into Lala Land. They have become much better in the last ten years with the PowerPC and recently Intel CPUs. PCs and Microsoft took a much more conservative yet much more versatile approach from the beginning, which led to very stable, if clunky and nerdy, hardware and OS platforms, while waiting for the more mature Intel CPUs to mature even more before using their new horsepower. That is why really heavy duty number crunching by engineers and scientists has been and is almost exclusively done on Intel based workstations, whether Windows or Linux, rather that Macs.
Dave is correct. A truly objective report of comparison crashing would put the Macs of old a very distant second. My bet is the new Intel based Macs, coupled with the Unix/Linux based OSs, may change the whole story. My prediction in 2002, that Microsoft will eventually make the switch to a Linux based Windows in ten years or so, may happen sooner because of the new competition.

I agree with the other techies. A PC is inexpensive and can be easily upgraded. Macs are a brand name basically. PC hw has been very stable for me. Since Win95, the GUI has been excellent while the equivalent Mac was not my cup of tea. OSX looks pretty good, but still has that menu thing at the top.
I do 3D programming and Windows is great for this. I assemble my own PC.
What am I suppose to do with a Mac? Just surf the web? Apple has taken FreeBSD and made a very elegant OS. I would buy one, but too expensive and not can be done with it.
I use to hear how ultra superior was PowerPC and stable. Oh man! Those things crashed so much and were so slow!
So a friend of a friend says it takes him 2 min to download 1 GB from his CompactFlash card while on a PC it takes, 22min. I'll believe it when I see it.

I feel like Macs and PCs compliment one another. It's like two number one songs... at any given time one song fits mood better then the other one.

First let me say I agree with John Casey statement. I used to here how stable Mac machines were all the time and when I was finally around Graphics designers that used Macs I made a comment about how it must be nice having a reliable OS only to have them for the next few weeks tell me over and over how often they crashed. Lately I have had the opportunity to have to support the new OSX and can say that other then trying to get either browser to not hang they seem to work fine from a Mac novice point of few. For those who complain about windows crashing all the time. I have had a couple XP machines running 24/7 since XP was released and have yet to have to re-install or have them crash and others that I have re-install or had crash just like Macs. It is simply a matter of numbers some will have good experiences and some bad and the larger the numbers the more you will hear about the bad and the bigger target for hackers. You can bet that if the market share was reversed Macs would be known just as much for their problems and PCs less for theirs.

Lets dispel some myths here.

You can upgrade and it's easier than upgrading a PC. Want to add RAM to your notebook, it's easy with a MacBook Pro... It also has a slot for the new standard for notebook expansion cards.

Upgrading a iMac is a different story, they are really not built for that. The same is true for similar all in one systems from competitors where everything is on-board and not on cards.

Want to go into card madness like most of the PC users who are complaining about upgradability, buy a Mac Pro... More expansion room and all with the newest interface standards. 4 hd bays, 8 ram slots, 3 full length PCI-E slots [not just 16 bit PCI].

Macs also come with the most stuff built in for the price: firewire 800/400, USB 2, 802.11 b/g/n, Bluetooth, cameras, microphones, speakers, optical audio out, remotes, optical audio in, DVI-Out (every single mac ships with DVI) and much much more.

As for software, Adobe products are better on Mac. iLife (iMovie, iPhoto, iCal, iTunes etc) make up the best consumer products of their kind. MS Office is lacking for the Mac, but I have a pretty good idea why. iWork (Pages and Keynote) is great software and makes the office equivalents (publisher and power point) look like 1980's software. Safari is a great browser and firefox is available in a pinch (improper webdesign, is the cause of 'this page does not support safari' Safari has the best CSS2 support and is also the most standards compliant browser out there.) As for games look at the most popular ones and they are on OS X (World of Warcraft, the Sims etc...)

OS X is more configurable than windows. It's true! Open the terminal good to change almost anything... Using the free developer tools I even open NIB (interface files) of AddressBook and Safari to change the windows to Aqua from brushed metal.

I seem to get into this argument on at least a weekly basis with a few friends of mine.
And for various reasons.
As a Graphic Designer, I've found that Macs really are the better platform for my needs.
I've been around long enough to have seen the problems with old Apples, and I've even had to build daisy-chains of SCSI connections. (Almost as much fun as stripping film. Almost.)
I've worked in both PC and Mac studios, and quite honestly the GUI, the hardware and the overall environment-- yes, I'm a designer, I like having a good-looking computer-- make for a better overall experience.
For me.
My friends, on the other hand, work exclusively in development. They stare at code day in and day out. They do not have the same needs as me, and therefore they have different expectaitons out of a computer. For them, PC's seem to fit the bill.
We take shots at each other's choices, but at the end of the day, I use my Mac and they use their PCs, and while never the twain shall meet, we're not at each other's throats over it.

Full installation(Windows XP)and drivers associated on my laptop: 3.5 hours

Full installation on OpenSuse10.2 (Linux)on my laptop: ~40 min

Now both times states are with connection to the internet. My operating system is Linux. I see the benefits of Open Source software vs. Microsoft. Granted ,there are both pro and cons to every OS (operating system), but have found Linux does not act like Big Brother (i.e questionable Microsoft security patches every day). As an example, Microsoft has spent an enormous amount of money to create Vista, whereas in Linux software is always built upon, improved, without having to always start from scratch. The only difference I see in Win95, Win98-2000 and XP in a slightly better GUI (graphical user interface) and more intrusion from Big Brother (Microsoft). Then again, I am not a computer techie,so my opinions are personal based on experience with both OS. I hear Macs are nice. Sure like those commercials. For those interested in Open Source: do a search for: Mandriva, Red Hat, Fedora, Kubuntu, Ubuntu, Xubuntu, OpenSuse. There are also more flavors of Linux out there ;]

PC:
Gamer
Programmer

Mac:
Graphic artist
Security (web surfing)

:)

What is a MAC? And a PC?

I own a Vic 20. It doesn't crash. I love it. It's better than all you guys.

Silly silly people.

although i dont realy like macs i agree thay are better then pc's in a way but cause macs are made for everything rather then one thing macs tend to be vary bad for gameing and macs are also not highly upgradeable as with pc's you never realy need to through out your pc to make way for a new one IF you know how to work with a pc and how to upgrade the hardware that being the case macs are more for the people who dont know alot about computer and it's hardware macs are more user friendly then a pc cause as i had said macs are made for everything but if you know what you want and you know how to use and work with tech the best thing to get is a pc

im a pc user... was going to buy a mac tell that commercial came out

I Love PC's Just becuase they are cheaper than Macs, and i think more reliabe than Macs. I love my PC'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111

MAC is the future and all you PC'ers are crapping your pant. Keep your second rate hardware, and viruses.

Macs are more stable in the same way gaming consoles are stable....when you have little to no options in hardware its hard to code a non compatible program. Unfortunatey for poor Macs, its option that make the PC market such a wonderful thing.

The ads are very stupid and dont fool yourself, they are working against your beloved Macs.
And yes, Macs are more secured cause NOBODY cares about it....if by any miracle it becomes important, someone will actually sit down and develop some viruses for it but as of right now, the reality is....NOBODY CARES! lol

You know what, keep doing the ads...I guess they help you relief the pressure of been a nobody compared to the PC market.

One thing that Mac has over PCs is that in those circus shows where Mr Jobs shows the "new" Mac stuff, you can actually fit every single Mac owner in the world in that conference room....PCs cant claim that! Congrats lol

That's the problem with people... As soon as you hear PC, you automatically assume "Windows". I use a PC and I can proudly say I don't have a single peice of Micro$oft software on it. Linux is better than Windows, and is sure as hell far better than any Mac OS ever released. Not to mention it's free and much more stable than Windows or Mac OS. Buy a Mac if you want a disposable computer. I always laugh when I see the one where PC is going for surgery, cause if it was the Mac getting the upgrade, he wouldn't be going for surgery, he'd be going to the garbage dump to make room for the new one... People who claim PC is crap only do so because they don't know anything when it comes to computers. Linux destroys all other Operating Systems, and if you find one too difficult to you (This is the beauty of Linux), get a different distro! It's FREE! Not to mention the majority of Linux software is also free. So I guess there is no reason to buy a Mac... at all. With a PC, you install Linux and it gives you less virus vulnerabilities than a Mac, and unlike a Mac, you don't have to throw it out when you need to upgrade it. Not to mention Linux can run on almost anything, including an iPod or old decrepid computers. Mac offers nothing but feeling like a wannabe computer elite.

The first computer i ever bought was operated by Windows. After about 3 years it was time to buy another computer after countless formatting from viruses and other junk that consumed my computer. So i decided to buy a power mac g5, It was by far the best computer purchase i ever made. I have had my mac just over 2 years now, and i have not once needed to formatted my mac. I do not use any anti virus programs or even a fire wall, and not a hiccup. P.C. are made up of components from many different parts manufactures from all over the world, Apple computers are made by apple, and you cant run software on a mac unless its certified by mac. And that is the main reason why macs are more stable, anybody and there mother can make up some software for windows and sell it to the public. And yes windows has 10 time more software to choose from, but at least all the software for the mac will be far superior than the P.C.s. The only reason why windows is the more used platform is because of the strangle hold they have on businesses, like a cartel....ONCE YOU GO MAC, YOU DONT GO BACK...

This will never end until the last PC burns up from viruses and poor construction...
I have been using computers for 35 years ... both Mac and PC.
I have been building computers for all of those 35 years. All of the PC people on here are so uninformed it is embarrassing. Please don't anybody get the idea that the switch to Intel processors has anything at all to do with anything but the fact that the Mac processors just ran too hot to be able to even go to G5 in the laptops. Also Intel makes a great chip and has given tons of support to Apple to make this transition.
Next ... as OS 10.5 comes out this fall it will be the ONLY 64 bit OS that will exist for Mac or PC users.
As far as upgrades go ... anybody can change hard drives ... add memory ... install a better video card and even upgrade the CPU's in all Macs from the last 8 years ... today in an instant.
Do Macs have problems? Of course they do but it usually is the result of cat or dog hairs in a cooling fan or something really stupid. The hard drives, CPU's, memory etc are the same we all use but on the Mac the system resources aren't taxed by a bunch of overclocking geeks that are too cheap to just buy a more powerful machine and leave it be.
I really have never seen a bunch of more stupid comments from so many uninformed jerks in my life...
I think this is the forum of 12 year olds ...
well kiddies take this from somebody who really knows.
Life is short ... get a Mac.

I just dont understand you people. whatever OS it is, as long as it meets your need then its OK. as long it works for you and you're happy then go for it.

I recently bought a MacBookPro. I gotta say the GUI is lovely.

Everything feels akward though since I've been using Windows for the past >10 years. I guess it's just a matter of time before I get the hang of it.

Now for the stability... Ever since I got Windows XP I cant remember ever experiencing a system lockup that needed a reboot. Nothing that an "end process" from the Task Manager couldnt fix.

I've had my Mac for roughly 1 week and it already froze on me and made me have to reboot and lose everything I had been working on. If this is something frequent on Macs then this lil beauty is going back to the store. I'll be using my laptop to acquire and analyse scientific data and I cant afford doing that on an unstable OS.

So far in my experience (only based on 1 week)

Sexiness OS X > Windows.
Stability Windows >> OS X

WOW! So many people are disilusioned. I have had plenty of experience with a mac and pc and personally I have chosen a PC. Granted I don't dislike mac's in any way but as far as upgradability and software you really can't beat a PC. I just built a new computer with a 4 core processor from intel, 4gig of DDR2 800 ram and 2 nvidia 8800 gts video cards running in SLI and I spent 1800.00 less than a comparable mac. Now I know that you can get 4 cores on a mac but your choices are limited. I don't think that mac's support ddr2 800 yet they are using 667 fully buffered server memory which is usless for home/office use. This just hinders your performance, not that you have the option to overclock or even use the bandwidth on an halfway decent game. Oh well, not my problem. Another thing you can do on a pc vs a mac is overclock. I have sucessfully overclocked my processor(s) to 2.7ghz rock stable. And all this was done by using the BIOS. If you want to overclock a mac you have to desolder/solder on the MB, or at least thats how it used to be. Now that intel is coming out with a new chip that has a 1333 FSB and the new DDR3 is coming out I guess that pc's are still on the cutting edge of technology and if you want you can overclock those as well. If you want to talk about software, 99.9% of software you can get for a mac you can get for a PC. It dosn't work the other way around. Most programs/games are written for PC then converted for use on a mac. I never hear about getting competitive framerates on a high end video card from mac users, actually I don't think that you can get the latest high end video cards for mac as you can with a pc (8800 gt*, 8600, 7950, 7900, or ATI 2900 series video cards) but you can get up to 4 low end video cards or a decent ATI card but you still

still cannot use them in an sli or cross Fire configuration. Granted I believe that the mac used to be a better computer then their counterpart but since they switched to intel they just leveled the playing field. If Apple ever decides to compete with microsoft via OS vs OS I would support them, but their hardware is overpriced pc hardware that I honestly cannot see the reason why I should pay the exorborant prices that Apple is asking for.
As for being a cheap overclocking geek maybe I am, but if I had to spend the extra 1800 to purchase a mac I would have put the money in to a higher end processor for my PC and overclock that as well.
Like I said, I don't dislike macs, I don't agree with apple on a lot of things that why I switched. I just don't like mac users who think their sh#t don't stink and look down on people who use a different computer that themselves. True not everyone wants to overclock but the end user might want to upgrade their video card and not be limited to Apple only hardware, and maybe they might want to install a HD Blue Ray dvd burner in the future. Who knows what in store for the future at least I know that I will be able to upgrade by buying one or two pieces of hardware at a time and not a new computer. And my iPod will still work with my PC.

RE: Stevens

What program do you use for overclocking?
Or do you just go through the bios?

Mac - for people who love to use Mac.

PC - for people who love to use PC
(sub variants - Windows - for people who love to use Windows
Linux - for people who love to use Linux
UNIX - for people who love to use UNIX

etc...
etc......)

So, STOP discussing and go to WORK. All are paid only if you do it....

to arun, if you got nothing good to say, don't say it.

The main differences between MAC and PC

MAC:

-Programs are made to work flawlessly for MACs, because there is no 3rd party hardware and there is no need for flaky patches and run-arounds.

-Basic models are good for people who have simple needs. Not much room for upgrade.

-Upgraded models good for video editing, music, etc...Expert or novice users. Expensive. Not much room for upgrades.

PCs:

-Basic models good for basic use, Word, Spreadsheets, etc... Very Cheap.

-Advanced models good for video editing, music, etc.. Hardcore gamers are usually buyers of their own modified Advanced models, which means they pick and choose what hardware best suits them.\

-All PCs are upgradable and there is a wide variety of hardware to choose from.

-Flaky patches for lots of the hardware.

As you can see, it's the same stuff, different pile.

Monkey:
For overclocking I just go through the BIOS but I have used the nvidia performance program to overclock cpu, gpu(s), memory, and pci bus first. This gives me a baseline that I can work with. Then I write down all the settings, enter the BIOS and push the setting about 5% more each time until it won't boot any longer then I step one component back at a time to see what is the weak link. Go back in windows and run folding @ home, prime 95, or any software to test the cpu. Also I run one for the gpu as well, nvidia has a decent stability test as well. I keep doing this routine until I get the results I am looking for (temps no higher than 50 deg. and no more than 1.5v additional to this cpu). This performance control panel has saved me quite literaly weeks of tweaking and testing. I have been able to get to 3.1 ghz on this cpu but its not stable, I refuse to water cool cause i'm too lazy! I just use a decent air cooler and go from there. Currently I am at 2.7 and just leaving it there for now, but I think I can get up to 2.8-2.9 ghz because the cpu temp under load is at 39-42C (depending on ambient air temp.) at 3.1 it rises to low to mid 50's under load.

you'll have loads of problems with a pc if you live in a cave and only uses your device for email. macs are rubbish if you got plenty of time then macs are for you cause its gonna eat up a lot of your time unlike pc's that are so fast macs are gonna eat their dust. and about virus and all that, have you heard of upgrading your antivirus each year? oh, i forgot you live in a cave. having macs is like downgrading, ultra slow speed, not upgradable, no good games, less options for the best softwares. down with the mac, power to the pc!

I have to agree partial with all sides here. For as I have tried the Mac for the first time 5 years ago....i was disgusted, why? I was too dumb to understand OS9 wasn't windows 98/XP.

For about 4.5 years I have been walking around,having this 'mac's suck attitude', and I could kick myself for this fact. 4 months ago I jumped the gun, and bought a Mac.

I still gotta try some vista, but for now OSX is exactly how I want an OS to behave.So I am happy.

In my opinion, it's almost impossible to download and install online video games onto a Mac since barely anything is compatible with the software. Also I've owned a PC for years without a single virus. PC is the choice for people who know how to use a computer properly. Mac shows itself just to for silly media entertainment, which can also be arranged on a normal PC. Basically, if you want a computer for a child, get him/her a Mac.

I've read many of the above comments with interest but feel I must comment on the general view that macs are better than pcs for design.
Firstly let me say I've been working for one of the leading design companies in the UK for over 10 years, focusing on the conference industry and working with many companies from Jaguar cars to Tony Blair himself (this is to give credibility to my arguments that we've had many happy customers).
Several years ago, my company got rid of all the macs as they were simply not able to compete with pcs on price, speed or reliability. We had many macs in the office and on site before then and they crashed more regularly than any pc has. There are also many things that pcs can do in photoshop and illustrator that cannot be done easily or at all on a mac (I will happily list them if requested). The rendering time is also far quicker when using a pc.
So please, please stop making silly unqualified statements about macs being the better machines for design. I've used both extensively and there is no question that pcs are superior in every department (apart from looking pretty).
Oh, and for the record, I can't remember the last time I actually had a virus on my pc!!

OK, I'm just your Mr Average, who currently uses XP driven PC's, at home and at work. My home PC is five years old and I'm going to buy a new replacement next week.
At home, I do the usual Mr Average stuff, plus some multi track recording. My CRT monitor is at the usual jaunty angle, on the corner of my desk and I keep banging my knee on the tower under the desk.
My goodness that iMac look's good and look at all the space it would save on my desk and all that space for my knees!
But hang on a minute, will I be able to transfer all my Windows Office files into the iMac OS. Oh, oh it looks like I'm going to need anti virus, as Virgin PC guard doesn't work on iMacs.
Mmmmm....plus the fact that XP has never crashed on me, at home or at work.
But hey, that iMac is very pretty.

I know, I'll have a look at some PC v Mac discussion on the Net. Maybe that'll help.

Sheeeees......maybe I should just pick the pretty one!!

The debate over which is best is pretty clear - Macs are kind of better, Windows is "good enough"... Both have their own segment of the market, I assume this the result of market shakedown, for whatever reasons they may be (though the personal computer history of the last decades can give us an idea).

The only thing hampering the Mac in terms of market share is probably price on lower-level units... but also the Mac cult halo. The relentless geekness of the Mac community make it an easy target for the common-senseness of day-to-day computer users. Hey, it's only a COMPUTER. You will often see a Mac freak with an apple logo lying around their desk or car bumper... You would not catch me dead with a ThinkPad tie or a Dell flag on my door. Their commitment to the brand actually pushes me to tell them to... get an iLife. There are more noble causes.

C'mon people.

Yo Steven in Seattle..."4 cores and 4 gigs" whas up geek? what are you building the Space Shuttle?

LDV you're just jealous.

And I just built my beast rig and would like to share the specs.

AMD X2 BE 6400+ 3.2GIG CPU
3 GIGS CRUCIAL BALLISTIX (unfortunately still a 32 bit system.)
Running on a Crosshair Mobo.
WD Raptor 150X as my main HDD
3 external storage drives
2x BFG 8800GTX OC1 in SLi
RAZER audio card and headset.

Everything watercooled.
Take that MAC aka the iSuck.

"LDV

Not yet, First I'm working on trying to make a stable wormhole! The theory is simple but the mathematics are horrendous, it has to do with quantum physics and long division. After that building a shuttle to go through the wormhole should be pretty simple. ---theoretically speaking---

Seriously, I wanted to build a system that was powerful, upgradable, cost effective, and a computer that would still be useful for the future. I do allot of office work on my system, but I also play games and dabble in programing and video editing so I needed a system that is somewhat fast, and has good graphics capabilities so I built my computer with that in mind.
I looked at Dell, Alienware, and (god forbid should I say it) even Apple. I have to admit that Apple makes a nice computer, but for the amount of money they are asking it better be nice. I built a nice computer for less than what a comparable Apple costs and I have the ability to use my video cards in SLI, or run 4 monitors on one computer with two video cards. I have my system running SLI on XP64 and Vista64, on my Linux OS I am just running the cards individually as you actually take a decrease in performance if you enable SLI on Linux. Regardless I am able to run a triple boot system on one PC not have any problems. Granted you can do this on a Mac as well, but I can assure you that every OS runs just fine on my PC as Apple would lead you believe otherwise(referencing latest stupid Apple commercial).
I must admit, 680i SLI MB, 4 cores, 4gig memory, 2 640mb 8800GTS video cards, I actually reached the top 20% in 3d Mark 06 during one of my overclocking sprees. Still I paid less than a comparable Apple.
Like I said in my previous post I don't dislike Apple computers, just 85% of the people who use them.

Now does anyone know the ratio of energy converted to heat when you split an oxygen atom with another oxygen atom? just curious

I have been an IT Support technician for about 15 years and for about the first 8 years I was a dedicated windows user until I finally saw the light since I changed over to OSX (Thankyou Apple). Macs are much better for many reasons; the operating system is way ahead in terms of stability which is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, you get the hardware and software from one company (Apple), all updates (hardware and software) are guaranteed to work (and you don't have to go looking for them), unlike ms windows a driver for one device will not be compatible with the other or the operating system itself, then you have viruses to put up with, you end up spending more time fixing the damn thing than doing any work, but hey thanks to Microsoft I still have a job.

Did you know the first virus was for a mac?

I'm not sure why, but I've never had a problem with Windows. Why is it that the Mac crowds are mostly the ones to get Windows to break? Seems kind of suspicious. Perhaps Mac users should learn how to use a computer?

It has been interesting and not a little informative following this thread. However many of the comments are built on a false presupposition.

I and the vast majority of computer users do not want to tinker around with the insides of our computers. We do not want to add video cards, memory, doo-hickeys, crumpers or any hardware. What we want is a machine that we can turn on, that has an operating system that intuituitively makes sense and does not crash or get viruses.

We have Dell PC's at school and I use a Mac at home. Downloading and using the Kindergarten report card at school required a call to the TDSB Tech help line. It downloaded and popped up easily on the school's iBooks. One of the kids managed to rotate the screen image on one of the PC's 90 degrees. It required a search via Google and complex instructions to solve this problem. If it had been a Mac I could have solvewd it in minutes.

Now I grant you I have been a Mac user for years and this may be part of the problem. However I find it intersting that the word processing program the Board has included is AppleWorks 6. Mainly because it is logical and easy to use as opposed to MicroSoft Word.

Now you may slag me for being a hopeless neophyte, the computer equivalent of someone who does not know how to change the oil in their car. So be it. However, when was the last time you changed the oil in your own car. And how many computer users are there who actually want to dig around in the innards of their computers as opposed who just want to turn them on and use them

There goes the boat....yes everyone has missed it. The beauty of the mac is very simple. You can enjoy both operating systems. Macs are great for somethings including not worrying about spyware or viruses, videos, pics (i have a kids). Its nice just to use a computer that just works but it comes with limitations..Guess what, that is when you load in windows and enjoy whatever you think is missing from the mac. For me flight simulator games, and well being fully compatible with the rest of the world. It is not a war between pc and macs, it is a war between dell, hp, compaq, and all other pc hardware vendors against apple. Apple wins because of support and BOOTCAMP and vitual machines. GO APPLE AND MICROSOFT

My solution, I own two Mac's, OS X, and two Windows XP, PC's, best of both worlds, problem solved. Variety is the spice of life.
So far no problems. I've been running one of my PC's for about 7 years now, I have reloaded the OS twice, only because I wanted a fresh load on a larger hard drive. Mac is Mac & PC is PC, I love em both!

Geez!
This is why I didn't buy an Apple. To the mac users who think their computers are FREE from VIRUSES. Phuleeezzz, keep thinking that though. In nature we call that "Survival of the Fittest!"or we can rephrase that to "Survival of the smarter than the average mac user who spent too much money on a computer so they could get some stupid sticker of a white apple to brand their VW with" not that I have anything against VW. Just the one's who use apple, and you see with that stupid sticker on the back.

Rickstir66,
I use my computer for Flight simulators as well. Actually, I use X-plane which is one of the FEW software titles that was actually written on a apple then converted for use for on a pc. Would you believe that it still runs better on a PC! Yep, I am able to utilize my SLI configuration to really push the game to it's limits. The only thing that is holding me back is the processor. And since apple has switched to Intel the same is true for apple as well, except for the SLI support. Apple is limited by the graphic card(s) and processor.

For the people who think that the majority of people who use computers don't want to tinker around with the insides of computers. Well that is true. These are the people who pay other people to upgrade their current system. At least if you purchase a Dell, HP/Compaq, or Alienware, you can purchase components and have them installed for you at a relatively reasonable cost.

If you want to upgrade an apple video card alone you have to pay an inflated price for the exact same hardware, the only difference is the firmware. So you end up spending 20-45% more on just the component itself w/out having it installed for you. Yes, on some graphic cards you can flash the firmware, but that would require some actual computer knowledge that you will not find in the general apple community, because like you said the average (APPLE) computer user does not want to "tinker".
The oil in your car rationale is flawed. Do you mean you never change the oil in your car, or do you pay someone to do it for you? Your analogy makes it seem like when it is time for you to change the oil in your car you just get a new car or drive it until the engine dies then get a new car. My point is upgrading/replacing components on a computer is a part of life, just like changing the oil in your car or getting it repaired. You either pay someone to do it for you, or you do it your self, it does not matter. What matters is the cost vs usability. If you want to get a machine to just surf the web and word processing, you should have saved your money and bought a $400 pc with anti virus. If you want a high end video editing powerhouse with multiple cores and terabytes of space you still would have saved money on a comparable PC, weather it is a Dell or one you pieced together. And as technology continues to advance you will still have to upgrade, and or repair.
Enjoy your sticker it might actually become a collectors item someday.

I co-own an 8 year old digital design company and we are all on PCs. The digital design place I worked at for two years before this was all on PCs as well. I haven't used a Mac since I was in design school and worked for a Mac fix-it company. When we hire people, they usually own a Mac, but after working on PCs, switch. I really don't see the point of working on a different system than your clients, since what we see, they see. All our machines run fast and smooth, so I don't understand the argument of Macs being better for designers. Most of what we do are Flash presentations, HD tradeshow videos built with After Effects/Premiere and websites. Besides the obvious aesthetics of the Mac, I really don't know why most designers think they need them to do their job, nothing we encounter on a day to day basis would require a Mac. Especially since we are a small company, the overall cost benefit of going PC over a Mac outweighs the cool looks of their hardware or OS.

It seems odd that people are making the mistake of comparing a Mac Operating System and specific brand of computer against only the Windows Operating System.
When I build a computer I don't think of it in terms of the operating system I have installed but whether it is a PC or a Mac

I mean a Mac is limited to only one OS while a PC has a number of OS options depending upon what it will be used for.
A PC is a seperate entity from its OS while an Apple computer is not

Macs can have Windows now...

Well, after reading all these posts, I STILL DON"T KNOW WHETHER I SHOULD BUY A PC OR A MAC!!!!!

I have had several PC's over the past 15 years and have recently switched to Mac. I do not have the extensive computer knowledge that many do, but I am also not helpless. I have upgraded video cards, RAM, CD/DVD drives etc...I have reformatted, kept my antivirus up to date, removed spyware, have a regular schedule with my pc tune up software and so on. I haven't run into too many problems along the way, at least nothing I couldn't figure out. That being said, I have no desire to commit my time and energy to the maintenance involved. You might think I'm just lazy, but to be honest I simply have better things to do. I have a PS3 for gaming and my Mac is both user-friendly and worry free. It does everything I want it to. I am sure there are millions of examples of a specific PC hardware/OS configuration that will have a better end result than Mac. I don't care. I love the simplicity and the style.

Macs are great. If u are a PC user or used to a PC then its goinna take time to get used to a Mac. But again Macs also do run windows and Linux OS. How often have u heard a Mac crashing? Except for the price difference between the PC and Mac, although I do not use a Mac myself, a Mac is a good and sturdy machine.

one word: Commadore64

im sticking with my commadore64 thank you very much!

I believe people choosing PC over Mac should consider what they are going to do with it. If you coose Mac, you are most likely the person that will do nothing but go on face book and hotmail and other online public domains. If you want to enter the world of computer gaming and file hosting and illegal downloading, I recommend PC.

Mac is a lot more powerful than the pc but it is less compatible with a lot of things.

People keep making caveats for mac, saying;

It lacks in software support BUT...
Sure it's hard to upgrade BUT...
I know it's way overpriced BUT...

There's no need! When something looks this good, nobody cares how dumb it is.

I don't care what anyone says. MACS ARE CRAP. i am into the television field and i have been using a Mac and a PC i have had about 15 crash's with the Macs. every Time i have to use final cut with Boris it crash the Mac with my PC i have never had one problem with editing programs. The Price! My PC was 799 for the same inside of my PC a Mac would cost 1599. so do you want to pay more or less for a better computer. last almost anything someone can do on a Mac i or my friend running off of a PC can do better

A pc that's been taken care of is much better than a mac. But most users have not learn't how to actually use a computer before getting one.

Okay, true Windows will have more virus issues because of it's popularity. If you tried to give people viruses would you target windows users (80% of market) or mac users (15% or market). So if everybody switched to mac, then mac would more viruses. See what i mean?

And even with lots of viruses windows users shouldn't have problems if they install basic & free security programs like "Avira AntiVir" and "Comodo Firewall pro".

Overall windows is best.

XP never crashes...macs do.

I believe that the best comp out is a mac. you know why because the mac runs windows faster than any PC so what does that explain? so you get best of both. You can have a actual good looking computer and your OS of your choice.

Buy A PS3 and put liux on it :) more powerful than a Mac or a PC

To Jeremy,

I have never had to restart my pc in 7 years! I don't think a mac can beat that. Sorry to burst your bubble about how good mac's are.

I work in the computer industry and have had to work with both Macs and PCs. Both systems will crash every now and then, but not often enough to be much of an issue. The main difference today is that Macs cost at least double or triple the amount of the equivalent PC. Like others have mentioned, there is a lot less software support for Macs. Anything that you can do on a Mac, you can do at least as well or better on a PC. The same cannot be said about Macs.

Let's put it this way: One of the best new features of Macs is the ability to emulate Windows (so you can run PC software). On the other hand, you would never need to emulate the Mac operating system on a PC, because any software that is available on a Mac is already available on a PC.

I work in IT, day in and day out I deal with PC problems, troubleshooting, diagnostics, installation... re-installation due to crashing/freezing/error messages/conflicts with other software... etc... just one headache after another...

At the end of my day, I got home and use my macbook... where I can leave all my work related stress at home and use something that just actually works! No stress, No problems

im a gamer, pc's are more powerful then macs and are much better for gaming. ive had my computer for about a little less then 2 yrs, no crashing, no formating no viruses, no problems. so i would advise you people to stop watching porn and wanking off. if you want to watch porn atleast get a decent antivirus program or go to reliable websites. and i personally think mac's gui isnt that much easier to use, i mean if you find windows hard to use then youve got some serious issues. hey windows 7 is coming out. it looks great, runs great, its organized its nice. well see how the competition goes after that.

All I can go on is my experience and my experience has taught me that when you need a reliable computer and can not afford to waste time fiddling to figure out why the bloody thing is crashing all the time, you really need a mac. Previously I had owned a Powerbook G4, from the day I bought it to the day I finally sold it It never had so much as a single crash, in the entire 4 year span Id never had to format and it never became sluggish.
My current PC is extremely high end, made from the best parts you can buy period, it crashes an average of 3 times a day,
bluescreens and hard freezes, and requires a format and recovery at least once a month. waste of money

My Previous Two PCs have been the same way,

They may be a fine "toy" for gamers, but they are useless for any serious user.

I'm sorry but if you have problems with your PC such as your getting viruses or crashes its because your a dumbass. you don't know how to properly take care of your computer. not because PC sucks, its just that apparently lots of stupid people have PCs and get those viruses.
I'm not implying I Don't get viruses but I don't get 5 times a year. I'v not had a virus in at least 3 years probably more like 5 years.

don't complain if your an idiot and cant watch out for yourself. PC is as good as any Mac.
and I say there about the same speaking biasly. but in my opinion PCs are better :]

I have only had a PC for 6 months.My first computer,I t has never crashed,or got a blue screen.I t has only froze twice,im running vista.I will get windows 7 and install it,but my pc is very stable,with no vireuses.I see no reason to pay triple the price for a comprable computer.I run itunes and a great photo suiteas well.

I Hate Macs!
They can't do anything I want them to.
They are way over priced for what they are...
Macbook air No USB, No firewire, No cdrom,no battery access, three thousand dollars!
They don't run the programs I want them to. When they lock up it takes me hours to restart.
On my PC... I run it 24/7 Programing, compiling, listining to music, whatever NOT ONE CRASH! It cost me 1/3 less money and gave me 100% satisfaction! If you can't run a PC, your Exaggerating to make yourself feel better about your Mac.

I think it's laughable that this arguement is more prevalent with non-technical people!?

I have been in the IT business since the late 80s and have watched (even participated) the development in hardware & software over the years.

I have a Bachelors Degree in IT and several IT Industry certifications - and what is most comical to me is someone with absolutely NO technical expertise - trying to tell me what kind of computing device to buy!?

I think those who buy purely based on looks and status symbol gains deserve to be stuck owning inferior products!

MACs may not be as suceptible to viruses & malicious ware - right now!? But the best is still to come - and as MACs become more prevalent in the computer tech realm - you can bet they will become the next best target for those disgruntled users out there!

I for one have used non-MAC products all my career and have rarely had the problems I hear people whining about.

It's like owning a car - if you don't keep up the maintenance - something is going to fail!?